Hosted by Mike Cosper, this podcast takes you inside the story of Mars Hill Church in Seattle – from its founding as part of one of the largest church planting movements in American history to its very public dissolution—and the aftermath that followed. You’ll hear from people who lived this story, experiencing the triumphs and losses of Mars Hill, knowing it as both an amazing, life-transforming work of God and as a dangerous, abusive environment. The issues that plague Mars Hill and its founder, Mark Driscoll — dangers like money, celebrity, youth, scandal, and power—aren’t unique, and only by looking closely at what happened in Seattle will we be able to see ourselves.
This is excellent podcasting/long form journalism. It is also faithfully Christian - unflinchingly truthful, diligently charitable, and shamelessly animated by actual Christian faith/theology.
🚨Episode 5 is NOT “Woke”
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kristencarder
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2021-08-10
Was afraid to get to episodes 4 and 5 because of the reviews, but honestly they are GREAT episodes. Not left-leaning or woke. Fair and informative.
Been in the evangelical church since I was a fetus and this podcast is shaking me to my core.
Well done 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
An insightful look at a shipwrecked ministry in a stormy culture
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barbershop1st
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2021-08-10
Mike’s ability to weave stories, culture, and ministry insight into a compelling narrative makes this podcast a must listen for Christians, but particularly those of us who came of age in the era of podcasts and the Internet. The production value is superb, but even better are the lessons learned from what happens when the Christian ministry is ripped from its biblical foundations and placed upon the sand of charisma, technology, and human power.
Excellent Journalism
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rachelvictoria
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2021-08-10
Cosper does an incredible job telling the story of Mars Hill, but also the story of many evangelical churches today, through a lens of objective journalism, compassion, and hope.
The research and work gone into creating a rich and well-represented story is evident.
I was formerly on staff at a church that shared a similar story to that of Mars Hill, and was hesitant to listen to this podcast for fear that it would hit too close to home.
It has actually been really illuminating, affirming, and hope-giving to listen to.
Thank you doing the sacred and important work of telling stories that the Church needs to hear.
Well done and balanced
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nate525
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2021-08-10
Sobering and well produced. Hits closer to home than I would like.
Incredible! Must Listen!
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swaynehill
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2021-08-10
Fair, nuanced view of the rise and fall of a ministry- lessons that can be applied in so many arenas of our society today.
Can’t stop listening. Thank you for the fantastic journalism!
If you’ve been “run over by the bus…”
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Justin Does Social Work
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2021-08-10
This podcast refers to Driscoll making an infamous illustration that those that stand in the way of his church’s mission need to get out of the way of the bus, or get run over by it. Sounds good and noble, but the reality is that freaking bus has left a huge wake of people behind it in its track. It’s not just the Mars Hill bus, it’s many “church buses.” There’s such a huge wake of people around us that have been discarded by churches because they were seen as a threat to the church’s growth or perhaps even a preachers individual platform. And the reality of that wake is torn support systems, severed relationships, lost jobs, depression, substance use, etc.
I am someone in that wake, and I’ve found listening to this pod a very cathartic experience. It’s healing to know I’m not alone, and that it’s ok to talk about hurtful things that have happened in church. Thanks to Cosper and everyone else that have brought this pod to life.
Also, I really really dig the soundtrack. I love the song choices at the end of each episode, and also the theme song.
Important Listen
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pho3be
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2021-08-10
I’m grateful for Christianity Today’s work in the Christian journalism sphere. This podcast is painful, enlightening, and necessary. However, the complexity of this story seems to be one of the downfalls of this podcast. The storytelling is ambitious and falls short of connecting all the dots for listeners. I find myself getting lost in the various trains of thought presented without a clear idea of the thesis at any given time. I’d like to read this reporting in long-form, and think all the nuances of this story would be best presented as several pieces to read with different headers and pull quotes.
Compelling
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rockswillcryout
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2021-08-10
Incredible well-produced, excellent investigative journalism told in a fantastic and captivating way. Cosper has a way of inviting us all to see our part (as evangelicals) in the story, and calling us to consider examine how it might be happening now without it feeling as though he is judging the people and situations from afar. (He’s not the coach yelling at everyone from the sidelines, but like the quarterback in it with the team.) How it will wrap up remind to be seen in its helpfulness, but as of now it’s serving as a fantastic case study for church leaders.
So many lessons
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james sulewski
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2021-08-10
An upward call to all churches to examine their culture and systems. I heard my story in the tragic tale of Mars Hill and am grateful for the words that describe parts of my journey in the beautiful but messy thing we call Church.
Thoughtful podcast
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who is Jesus
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2021-08-10
I am writing this after listening to 7 episodes. I encourage those who are listening to listen to all episodes instead of judging based on 1 or 2. Each episode is looking at a different facet of the fall of Mars Hill, and it’s difficult to look at all the factors through the lens of one episode. CT is doing a great job to challenge Christians to consider if they are in the faith just to follow a human pastor or if they are truly studying the Word on their own to grow in grace and follow the true Jesus Christ.
Fascinating
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kieralynnstoltz
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2021-08-10
I appreciate parts about this podcast:
- the narrative style
- the LOADS of evidence (i.e. recordings of Mark, and background of those recordings)
- personal interviews
- a deep look at the “counterfeit” version of what the church is to look like
I hope to see more of this in the future:
- scripture, scripture, And more scripture, of how the church is to operate biblically. None of this matters if we don’t have biblical evidence as to why the church shouldn’t look like Mars Hill looked. It’s not enough to look at the counterfeit dollar- you have the know what the REAL dollar looks like to know it from the counterfeit.
- it seems to frame reformed Christians in a bad light, even though Mark wasn’t even close to a representation of what it looks like to be reformed.
All in all, I find this very entertaining and thought provoking. Will continue to listen!
A must listen.
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Tman1083
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2021-08-10
Please make this a priority of your time pastors, leaders, boards, and elders.
Powerful, balanced, emotional, and fascinating
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MHP890714
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2021-08-10
Listening is not only fascinating and disturbing, it is helping me to make sense of my own spiritual and church history from the early 2000s in a meaningful way. The work that has gone into setting up background and context here in this podcast is exceptional and powerful.
An excellent autopsy of what happened to Mars Hill
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PaceZilla
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2021-08-10
This is an excellent podcast of what happened to the death of Mars Hill. Mars Hill was truly something years ago, seemingly come out of nowhere all the way to mega church status from Seattle (of all places). This podcast will let you know how the church grew so rapidly and what led to its downfall. Listening to it it’s almost as if I’m listening to a detective novel trying to get to the malefactor.
I have to say that Mars Hill took on all the appearances of a cult. I guess we have to be happy that they were not literally asked to drink the Kool-Aid.
Well done across the board!
Mark’s new church
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Barb DK
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2021-08-10
Hey sisters and brothers…. He’s at it again! Lots of problems in the new church: Trinity in Scottsdale. They surveillance people, have a huge security detail even post pix of shunned ex-members who are not allowed on campus. One ex member compared him to David Koresh without the weapons. I’m not so sure about that. Mark is a violent guy…. His sermons alone belie this! Google Trinity Church in Scottsdale or Mark Driscoll. Pray!!! Please Jesus stop this lunatic! I hope Scottsdale doesn’t become his Guyana,
Well done!
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chaplain reb
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2021-08-10
Excellent podcast that actually maintains truth in love without that mean spirited edge we hear so much today. PLEASE do a similar podcast on Harvest Bible Chapel/James McDonald, this one rocked me.
Proud
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nks2000
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2021-08-10
There’s no other word to describe Mike Cosper and CT’s podcast. Cosper has both ignited a nationwide conversation and produced a work that has lit a flame about real problems of the American Evangelical Church construct.
There hasn’t been a day
Compromised
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thoughtfullyjoshua
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2021-08-10
There are two categories in my mind as i mull over this podcast: what happened to Mark Driscoll, and what is happening with Christianity Today. The podcast sheds some light on Mark, revealing a lot of pride, harsh leadership, forcefulness with people’s consciences, and going beyond scripture in some commands. It’s a sobering picture—I hope that God works or has worked repentance in Him for these leadership sins.
For CT, I am shocked to hear of how they have adopted a largely secular, popular-culture outlook on the world. They speak of power differentials, conditioning, toxicity, healthy and unhealthy, rape culture, feeling invisible, feminism, the patriarchy, the dangers of being confessional. They speak like a discount NPR, eagerly following—albeit a few years behind the times—what the wider culture commends them to think. Scripture speaks on many of these matters as well, but it’s neither the language or concerns of scripture that seem to underpin critiques—they default to explicitly referencing other language, assumptions, and authorities. And when scripture and culture are uncomfortable in a space, it is scripture that has to move over.
While CT points out some grave errors, they do so from a thoroughly Millennial, American, coastal, pop-culture worldview, using its terms and presumably adopting its underpinnings. This means that their critiques are often unbalanced or amiss entirely, and evincing that CT’s authorities are Buzzfeed, Disney, NYT articles, and other contemporary institutions or movements rather than scripture. It is a very sandy, compromised foundation, so listen with caution.
A Potential Turning Point for the Church
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Kacey@QuinntessentialArt&Decor
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2021-08-10
Telling the stories of the people left in the aftermath of things like this (the “pile of dead bodies”) is what causes genuine lovers of Jesus to recognize the importance of spotting the red flags BEFORE it happens on their watch. I pray this podcast will be a light shined in the dark places that hurting people have been shoved into and seemingly forgotten. I pray this is a time for stories to be told, truth to overcome lies and for the Church to rethink what matters most in the eyes of Jesus. Thank you for your diligence with this. It’s definitely about more than just Mars Hill or Mark Driscoll and your point is coming across beautifully.
Healing through the sting
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MsNicole_Renee
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2021-08-10
This podcast is both a sting of salt in a wound and a healing balm at the same time for this former MH member. Very helpful in processing some feelings I wasn’t aware I was still holding about Mark and MH.
Insightful and Sad
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CliffSmithZBRDZ
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2021-08-10
I went to Mars Hill from late 2003-mid 2005 and left because I was moving out of state. Too early to see the real problems but late enough to see the warning signs. I even told a friend, right as I left, thar “One day this will all fall apart and it’ll be because nobody will be around that’ll tell Mark he was too much the center of all this.” I knew people who went there to the end.
I have very mixed feelings about the whole thing. I always offer this, heavily qualified, defense of Mark Driscoll: if you don’t understand Seattle’s culture in that time, you don’t really understand what he was fighting.
But at the end of the day his arrogance and abusive tendencies over-rode any good he may have done. And I’ve seen the wreckage among friends and even family that continued to attend.
This podcast does a really great job of chronicling what happened and why, things I heard through whispers and such for years. It seems to me to seek the truth about the problems without denying the good things that were happening that allowed people to overlook it. It’s great journalism that seems to me to be guided by sober minded theology and understanding of fallen people.
An epic tragedy in personal terms
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Knapsack77
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2021-08-10
So much I could say… but this is a work of journalism, of theology, an historical document, an audio achievement. If you can only make time for one podcast this summer, this is it. But if you’re a true crime podcast fan, this is a Columbo: you know how it ends. How we get there, though, has P.D. James layers of mystery to be unveiled.
Required Listening
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jimnshar
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2021-08-10
Required listening for today’s Christians.
Truly incredible
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ryankboyd
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2021-08-10
Mike Cosper is an incredible story teller and this is a story that needed to be told and that we need to hear and learn from. So thankful for CT and Cosper doing this.
Mars Hill Alum or Not—This is an addicting podcast
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Alicita86
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2021-08-10
From a general point of view, this is a juicy podcast that shows the underbelly of church and processes that should be revealed and reckoned with more often. Whether your attended Mars Hill or not this podcast really keeps your attention. I appreciate that it continues to make connections to ways folks in the church give rise to voices who should be challenged, especially if they’ve either fallen victim to their power or agree with their convictions that marginalize others in the name of God. As someone who attended this church for a period of time, this podcast is in many ways vindicating for all the times I felt shame for disagreeing rather than trusting my understanding of God and the Bible.
Must listen
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Fynntorve
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2021-08-10
As a pastor, professor, and Christian college administrator, I believe this is a must listen for those in, and preparing for, ministry in the church. It is a powerful case study for learning the pitfalls and blessings within ecclesiology. It also serves as an important oral history for the Church. Thank you CT for this podcast. More of this please.
Embarrassing
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CFlizzy
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2021-08-10
Christianity Today should be embarrassed and ashamed in how this story was laid out and delivered. Almost like click bait, in order to further their funding for the future of their podcast.
A story told under the guise of impartial truths and thoughtful questioning of “why as Christians do we keep doing this to ourselves.” The slanted, one sided messaging and nature of this podcast is laughable and makes me wonder what the greater objective is for C.T.
Mars was not perfect, but the Lens in which this series is delivered is skewed and has a slanted narrative to the displeasing things of the church. You can hear, and sense, the elation of the narrator to emphasize the reasons for the down fall, yet verbally state the perplexing nature and sadness that MH did fall.
It is an interesting story, weaving the inner working of the church and the outward response of the congregation. The last few episodes are really when you start to figure out the point of this series and the messaging the narrator wants to promote within the Church.
Cosper said he was a member of the Church, basically proclaiming it, to try and build credibility for the story, however it comes across much like he is one of the attenders that was offended, hurt and disapproved of the message and direction of then Church. His opinions begin to pour out as the series moves on. It’s very easy to control the messaging when you’re the one controlling the microphone and editing of the interviews.
Cosper, a better question would be; why do we, as Christians and sinful humans, continue to attend Churches and call it our home only to begin to rip it apart from the inside due to our own self-righteous sinful behaviors?
An interesting listen. Just take it with a grain of salt and understand this story teller has a very opinionated and one sided depiction of the story.
Honest and Unflinching
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Mr. MathLaughlin
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2021-08-09
This is as honest and unflinching a look at Driscoll and the fallout from his movement as we’re likely to ever get from folks still within the evangelical world.
Does it go far enough or deep enough? I’m through episode 5, and so far the answer is no. But if you’d asked me in the late 2000’s if I thought that CT (or any other evangelical publication for that matter) would ever be capable of putting this kind of content out, I would’ve laughed.
It’s been an emotional listen for me. As someone who was raised in the Calvary Chapel and Vineyard movements, then became affiliated with the “Young, Restless, and Reformed” in my late teens and early twenties, the descriptions given of the historical forces that shaped my young life are both instantly familiar and yet alarming and strange. Episode 4 was a particularly difficult one for me—I was both longing for that sense of belonging that I’ve not ever been able to recreate in my life since leaving that world, while also realizing ever more deeply that it was precisely that longing that left me vulnerable to the predatory practices of conservative evangelicalism in general and the modern Calvinists in particular. Episode 5 was painful too—the portrayal of how sexuality was taught in that movement back then is 100% accurate and more than a decade of removal from that world has not lessened the queasy, angry feeling I get when I think about it.
I find it telling that most of the reviews I’ve seen on here are either 5 stars or 1. The 1 star reviews I’ve read make me feel even more strongly that the CT team has done a good job here… not many evangelicals have been willing to openly question whether ideology has something to do with “why this keeps happening” and the fact that it’s angering all the right people means it’s long past overdue.
And so, a hearty well-done to Mike and the team from this side of deconstruction. Although we are no longer co-religionists, we are fellow seekers after truth. And on that journey, I wish you continued success.
Nuance is lacking in our culture...
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Timnoose
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2021-08-09
It feels like in today’s culture, everyone has to be divided into good and bad, without any nuance. I was particularly glad to see that this podcast was able to bring out some nuance here. Some critics blast this for saying anything nice at all, but that is real life. Yes, God can break through, even in abusive situations. It doesn’t make what Mark did right or even soften it a little. But I would hope that we can learn from this, that it’s okay to tell the truth even when it doesn’t fit our overall narrative. Excellent podcast that doubles as a warning to all churches and leaders with high charisma gifts.
Wow!
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Kytrader
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2021-08-09
A well executed, thought provoking, deep look at organized religion in America. Where do we go from here? Will we learn from this? Will history keep repeating itself?
Fantastic podcast
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morgs hicks
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2021-08-09
Mike Cosper and team did a fantastic job on this podcast. I finished the entire series in two days, just couldn’t stop! Thank you for sharing this story.
What we need
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South Carolina Girl Dad
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2021-08-09
It seems that we’re in a time of God refining His church. This is a must listen to anyone concerned about cult of personality pastors
So Relatable
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Missymat
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2021-08-09
Having worked in an unhealthy ministry environment and witnessed the crazy things people put up with, this was such an informative, relatable series for me. We have to change the way we do church and ministry, and we have to ask ourselves why we love arrogant narcissists.
Powerful and sobering
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LlanfairGoGoGoch
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2021-08-09
I had heard of Mars Hill at the height of its popularity, but I didn’t know or understand what happened to it. This podcast is incredible and powerful for its pursuit of a shameful era.
Every church leader needs to listen
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VineMom
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2021-08-09
As a church leader, this was very sobering to listen to. This podcast is a giant: what NOT to do as a church leader.
Thank you Mike Cosper for putting this together!
I can’t wait for each episode to drop every week!!!
Deep
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Nathan 25
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2021-08-09
Geez, kinda expected this series to just rail against Driscoll and Mars hill but was so different. Such a holistic view of the culture, history, and people that led to Mars hills growth and collapse. Thought provoking and engaging, I found myself questioning my own views of what I praise in celebrity figures and my ability to overlook flaws in charismatic leaders. Thankful for the wise, compassionate, and comprehensive reporting that I will probably relisten to in the future.
So many implications for the church in this time/place
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Yodogyeeeeeeeedog
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2021-08-09
I was at the Glorietta in 1998. Remember the enthusiasm around Driscoll. There was a sense of “this is what the church needs”, but there was also something that did not resonate in my soul. Thank you CT for such a great podcast and being willing to be a voice of reason and dissent in Christendom
Mindblowingly Good
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Brian Beaird
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2021-08-09
I am completely blown away by how well-done this is. What an incredible story - thanks for covering this in such a comprehensive, honest, and moving way.
Enlightening, Educational, Critical Information for any of us in ministry
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Preacher Sam
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2021-08-09
While most of us think we know what happened at Mars Hill, especially those of us who live locally, this podcast is really enlightening. Personally, I find a lot of this information so educational in terms of finding out what was really going in the church that many just did not know. The information is really critical for anyone who is in ministry or honestly for anyone in the church, any church. The exploration of a charismatic narcissism is just mind blowing.
Excellent
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Uriah02
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2021-08-09
MHC was my primary source of sermons for a number of years. I knew there were structural and attitudinal concerns at the "mothership", I was aware of the hurt people. I read numerous books by Driscoll, I still think fondly of some of the lessons he taught. This is a great case study of how to detect an unhealthy church, particularly amongst the reformed stream of thought. Insulate the leaders, do not have them submit to the same scrutiny as the members or junior leaders. I hope Mark and Christians in the United States have learned and will learn much from this.
Great storytelling
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Dori8910
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2021-08-09
Great storytelling and we can all learn a lot from this tale. I really appreciated all the research, interviews, and audio clips that helped us to get the big picture. All Christians should listen to this!
So that’s what happened…
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Holasoykarla
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2021-08-09
I’m starting episode 4 so I don’t have my full review ready. What I can say, is that I Remember being at a house party of young adult christians right after the announcement came out that he resigned. I asked almost everyone, what happened? Do you know why? All I got were vague answers, something about his behavior. Up until that point, when I heard about pastors leaving for behavioral problems, it was sexual in nature, so I was so confused. What had he done that was that bad??
It’s worth noting that at this point in my life, I’ve distanced myself from the evangelical church. Nothing having to do with the fall out of Mars church, but with the evangelical church culture in general especially during the 2020 election
A Must-Listen
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KaylaEllis
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2021-08-09
A must-listen for anyone serving in ministry and anyone who is interested in how we’ve arrived at this cultural moment in the American church.
Sad, disturbing, and important
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Orions harmony
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2021-08-09
I didn't know the story before I started so it was quite the story to hear. It should be talked about and shared as a object lesson on pride vs. humility and the symbiosis between leader/follower or the empowered and those perceived as weak.
I’m hooked
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Committed Participant Observer
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2021-08-09
The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill is a twelve-part series. So far, only six episodes have been released. I am already captivated. Although it’s premature to write a thorough review, I’m writing now in hopes that some who haven’t yet listened may read this note and be motivated to dive in.
In its heyday, I was certainly aware of Mars Hill Seattle and its much-talked-about pastor, but, frankly, my concerns were elsewhere, and I didn’t pay close attention.
This podcast pays close attention. Mars Hill leaders and members give the perspective of insiders. Analysts and scholars show how this particular church fits in the broader stream of U.S. culture in general and American evangelical Christianity in particular. The host skillfully weaves it together. This story is not a simple “cautionary tale.” It’s more like a mirror. It’s up to those of us who look in the mirror to decide what to do about what we see.
Christianity Today already hosts informative podcasts like Quick to Listen and others, but they’ve definitely stepped up their game with this long-form analytic report. I eagerly await the release of the remaining episodes.
Terrific
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TexasYP
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2021-08-09
This has been a great look into one of the most impactful church implosions of our lifetimes. Mark was someone I enjoyed listening to and reading his work, but I had no idea about many of the issues that the podcast addresses. I served on a church staff that had a “cult of personality” around the senior pastor- this podcast has helped me better understand how to pray for them. Looking forward to future episodes. This podcast should be a must- listen to for young church leaders.
Highly recommend!!
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Jowatie
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2021-08-09
Very well done. It’s actually allowed me to unpack some of the memories and experiences I have that were influenced by Mars Hill. This podcast also prompted me to connect with an old friend who is also processing the same subject. I very much appreciate the effort to place things in context, as they go back to the start and rise of mega churches from the 1970s-ish. And it’s very respectful of the good that happened at the church while being honest about the hard stuff. I was nervous it was going to be a podcast just bashing the church but the reporting is done extremely well. I binged the first 6 episodes in a week, looking forward to the next one!
Wow! The Story telling is captivating
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tellis478
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2021-08-09
Mike’s ability and gift to give us insight and information that can help all of us is amazing. This story is not about bashing one person or a movement. It’s about us, see what we have created as a church culture. Begging the question to be answered, what do we do? How do we change this? Its about us, as individuals and the collective church taking responsibility by repenting before a holy God and asking for wisdom to change out individual hearts and motives and to collectively creat a new, holy movement of repentance. Let’s embrace our part in this story and help change the western church. To peruse kindness, holiness, and compassion. To be the bride of Christ!
Captivating
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fabulous as always
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2021-08-09
Super great podcast and journalism. I was hooked immediately. It's helped me learn more about the church and reflect more on the ideas we perpetuate. Great to reflect on as well as a good story.
Cathartic
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kevin.holland2021
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2021-08-09
In listening to this podcast, I found it easy to “locate” my own faith community story within the Mars Hill story. The “stunning life change and stunning pain” statement by Ed Stetzer said it all. The reporting, interviews, commentary, production, vibe, and spirit are all next level. Well done. Thank you!